Premiere elements 3.0 does pulldown

[royfel]

Capture in split
Elements can output with pulldown
Can it be that easy? It seems to be working fine.
Someone with 3.0 please check me on this

[Eugenia Loli-Queru]

I have heard that because Canon's camera does not have special attributes about the 24f inside the 60i stream, Premiere disables that feature because it can't detect that this is the case.

So in a nutshell: Premiere can do it, but Canon's firmware does not include the needed information. There was a petition to ask Canon to update the firmware.

[royfel]

It is workin,with elements not pro.
The option is not grayed out

[Mark Dog2]

what you mean by capture in split royfel ??? and please explain the whole procees are you just using elments 3.o and it does the 24p pull down ?????????

[Eugenia Loli-Queru]

I fail to see how this can help, because the Premiere LE does not support 24p timelines. It is a feature reserved for the PRO version. And from what I heard from the pro version, it won't do the pulldown because it's greyed out. Anyways, please provide more info if you have some.

[royfel]

Capture off the camera using HDV split (http://strony.aster.pl/paviko/hdvsplit.htm), if you capture using PE3 all the sceens run together (that's the part canon forgot).
Add to PE3
Render as MPEG 2, preset HDV> go to advanced. choose 23.97 for frame rate,3:2 pulldown will be selected> progressive will be selected>save this preset.
Movie is now M2T 1440x1080, 23.97 progressive.
Although you say it doesn't work it seems to be working fine, my understanding is that it only works in elements not pro.
There is a free trial and it's only $60 on amazon, someone else please confirm this, seems to good to be true and $200 cheaper than cineform

[Eugenia Loli-Queru]

I have tried Premiere LE on my PC before I bought Vegas but it stopped working after 3-4 times loading a project. It just dies on load. I searched for this error and apparently it's a known bug, that happens when you update WinXP with updates from Microsoft (as it happens once every month).

[royfel]

Works fine in Vista

[acoustiking]

He's right, it's does the pulldown. Captured in Vegas (clip that was shot in 24p), imported into Premier Elements, rendered with the custom HDV setting incorporating the 3:2 pulldown. Popped back into Vegas and the properties were exactly what he said they'd be:

1440x1080 23.97fps

Rendered pretty quick (2m clip in about the same). I'll post a screenshot if you'd like.

[semicolon]

I've been poking around in Pemiere Pro 2.0, is has there been a consensus reached as to this feature being available in Pro?

[V10TDI]

He's right, it's does the pulldown. Captured in Vegas (clip that was shot in 24p), imported into Premier Elements, rendered with the custom HDV setting incorporating the 3:2 pulldown. Popped back into Vegas and the properties were exactly what he said they'd be:

1440x1080 23.97fps

Rendered pretty quick (2m clip in about the same). I'll post a screenshot if you'd like.

So...we can spend $60 for PE3 to have a simple method to do pulldown of 24p footage? I'm all over that...

[Eugenia Loli-Queru]

I am using Vegas Movie Studio 8 (not Pro) because it support 24p timelines. So, when you remove the pulldown and save it on the disk, HOW is Premiere saving it down as? As .m2t or another format? You see, it's important after you remove the pulldown:
1. The scenes are detected properly and files are broken into scenes.
2. The resulted file is m2t or other widely supported format.

Ideas?

[acoustiking]

Filmed in 24p Cinemode

Captured in Vegas (see property of .m2t) as 29.97, of course


Imported into Premier Elements (again, see .m2t property)


Rendered out with advanced settings (23.976 with 3:2 pulldown)


Back into Vegas (see new property of m2t)


Is it fair to assume, if you use Vegas, to capture, edit and render as hdv 60i, then finish it up with Elements to make it true 24p?

[Eugenia Loli-Queru]

I don't think it's possible to "finish up" with Elements without using an uncompressed format. You see, in both cases we have to re-render twice, and this adds one generation of rendering, which takes away a lot of quality of the final product. I have some lossless formats installed, like Lagarith, but they don't show up in the Vegas/Premiere "render" dialogs.

[Lunchbox]

Eugenia,

In Premiere, to output AVI with Lagarith code, you will need to select Export to Movie. Change file type to "Microsoft AVI". In the Video page, you will be able to select "Lagarith" in the Compressor drop down.

I'm sure it's a similar process in Vegas. You have to specify output to Microsoft AVI first. Then you will be able to pick the codec you want.

[Ten Ounce]

I have Premiere 3 on one of my computers, and even though it says 23.97 on the timeline when you actually play the video back it looks terrible. Have you actually tried playing the video to see if it plays properly?

[24Peter]

I have Premiere 3 on one of my computers, and even though it says 23.97 on the timeline when you actually play the video back it looks terrible. Have you actually tried playing the video to see if it plays properly?

Well that was going to be my point. How does it look. Since the flags are not included, the software doesn't know which frames are redundant and should be removed so it could be removing good frames. (I think CineForm basically compares frames at the beginning of a clip and determines which are redundant [and what the cadence is for that clip] - that's why it can do flagless pulldown removal. I doubt PE3 is doing that.)

[acoustiking]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ten Ounce
I have Premiere 3 on one of my computers, and even though it says 23.97 on the timeline when you actually play the video back it looks terrible. Have you actually tried playing the video to see if it plays properly?

Well that was going to be my point. How does it look. Since the flags are not included, the software doesn't know which frames are redundant and should be removed so it could be removing good frames. (I think CineForm basically compares frames at the beginning of a clip and determines which are redundant - that's why it can do flagless pulldown removal. I doubt PE3 is doing that.)

I'll film something more than 20 seconds of my kitchen. I never really used it (I received the software by luck and never even installed it until I saw this thread). When I rendered it out, I just checked the properties with Vegas, along with making the screen shots.

I'll shoot something, do the pulldown, and upload to the site here with like the first 20 seconds of 29.97fps/24p .m2t dump and the second 20 seonds of the 24p/24p Premiere .m2t.

[acoustiking]

24Peter, you were right. The Elements pulldown render looks like garbage.

raw dump (24p x cinemode)
http://hv20.info/yopu/TestClip2.m2t

raw dump with Elements pull down applied
http://hv20.info/yopu/TestClip1.m2t

each filesize about 40mb

Oh well...at least it was a good lead

[Ten Ounce]

24Peter, you were right. The Elements pulldown render looks like garbage.

raw dump (24p x cinemode)
http://hv20.info/yopu/TestClip2.m2t

raw dump with Elements pull down applied
http://hv20.info/yopu/TestClip1.m2t

each filesize about 40mb

Oh well...at least it was a good lead

You got the same thing that I got when I edited my clips. Too bad.

[quintana4]

Just to confirm: I tried this in Premiere Elements 3.0 as well and the resulting footage was rather poor. Clearly, the reverse telecine process in this NLE is not sophisticated enough to detect the frame cadence without the proper marker flags that the HV20 omits.

Unfortunate, as I have PE 3.0 and was hoping this would to the trick...

[Eugenia Loli-Queru]

I guess some of the problem explained here:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=103092

[24Peter]

I guess some of the problem explained here:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=103092

That thread does discuss converting the HV20 24p> 60i files to true 24p files. But I don't think the problem discussed there - chroma bleeding - has anything to do with PE3 not being able to correctly remove pulldown. The problem that's coming up here with PE3 is simply that it can't do flagless pulldown. So it doesn't know which frames are repeated and should be removed. Cineform compares frames and then counts cadence for each new clip. PE3 would have to do the same.

I think PE3 - and every other major NLE out there - would do a fine job removing pulldown from the HV20's 24p files, if Canon included the flags. They've chosen not to so as to distinguish the HV20 from their pro cameras (doesn't make any sense since why then did they include 24p in the first place?)

[Ian-T]

...(doesn't make any sense since why then did they include 24p in the first place?)

So as to bug the hellout of us. They probably read these threads and get a kick out of it. They know they have a hit with this cam....but don't want to threaten sales of their upper ended cams. I suspect they will not add flags i their HV30. but when they see sales drop...and how much that would be a bad move....they will offer it in the HV40.....just speculating.

As I said in other threads...Canon raised the bar with this cam...now....it's only a matter of time before Panasonic, Sony, JVC etc. answers the call and add the same features and then some...then Canon will be left out in the dust wondering where they went wrong. I mean think about it...his is the biggest selling feature (24P) for this cam.....If other cam companies don't anti-up and follow suit they reall don't stand much of a chance to capture back some of the market they have already lost. Mark my words...we will shortly see a plethera of new...BETTER consumer HDV (or maybe AVCHD) cams in the very near future....thanks Canon.

[24Peter]

Personally I suspect they just didn't think it thru and/or didn't feel there would be a demand for it from us "consumers". But now that we're all asking for it, it would be lame for them to admit that. So they say it's a "Pro" feature instead.

In any event Ian (and anyone else who has an opinion), I posted an email address for Yuichi Ishizuka, Sr. VP and GM of Canon's Consumer Imaging Division. Here it is again if you want to make your views (respectfully) known: yishizuka@cusa.canon.com
I still think if enough people chime in on the issue Canon will change it.